The Regime Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 My vote is obvious, I just want to see what you guys think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regime Posted December 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 btw ESPN rates the top 3..... 1. Magic Johnson2. Kareem Abdul Jabar3. Kobe Bryant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreusito Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Probably Chuck Nevitt, at 7-5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChosenOne Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Went with other: The Machine lol nah MJ got my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Kobe. Already has 4 rings, clearly most talented player in franchise history, 81, 35 ppg, best defender in Lakers history, most clutch player (of all time arguably). People can sugar coat it and say MJ or Kareem, which is fine, but none of them can touch Kobe imo. His only weakness is his 1 Finals MVP, but he will have at least 3 when its all said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Penny Posted December 24, 2009 Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 Kareem = GOAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 sean rooks (magic til kobe gets another ring) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted December 25, 2009 Report Share Posted December 25, 2009 Gotta go with Magic on this one. Kobe will finish his career as the better player, plus he has many more seasons ahead of him. But he has yet to surpass Magic in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laker Girl Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Kobe of course, but I think its pretty obvious that list includes the greatest lakers of all time aside from Shaq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lafan9 Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Magic as of now, kobe is right up his [expletive] tho, and I'd put Jerry West over Kareem honestly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) Magic. Five rings, nine NBA Finals. Took basketball to art form, redefined his position and in the process resuscitated basketball. Before Magic the NBA Finals were on tape delay at 11:30 pm. Kobe won't have the opportunity to save the game or redefine his position so he'll have to win more rings and appear in more finals than Magic to pass him. Until then, Magic is first. Edited December 28, 2009 by Sky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest California Dreamin' Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Just players? The greatest Laker of all time is Chick Hearn and the greatest Laker player of all time is Magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Magic or Kareem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 28, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Kobe is the best overall player to put on a Lakers uniform, so he's the greatest Laker of all-time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Kobe is the best overall player to put on a Lakers uniform, so he's the greatest Laker of all-time.Wilt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Even though I never watched Magic or Kareem play, I'll just assume it's Kobe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 28, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Wilt?Wilt played four full seasons with us, and his best years came earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 It's greatest Laker not greatest Laker overall player. The greatest Laker on the floor is most rings most impact and that is undeniably Magic Johnson. How can Kobe be the greatest Laker when he has less rings than Magic? He can't. You want to say Kobe is a better overall player than Magic ok agreed. But is he more important to the franchise? No. Five rings to four. Nine finals appearances to six. And most important of all elevating the game and the franchise to lay the financial base that then makes everything that followed possible. Staples doesn't happen without Showtime, the entire NBA doesn't reach this level without Showtime. Shaq and Kobe doesn't happen without Staples. Affording the league's highest payroll now doesn't happen without Threepeat. It's a connective thread but the key thing is it began with Dr. Buss and Magic. Earvin set the franchise on its current path and everything flows from that. Which makes Magic's impact HUGE. Kobe Kult can revert to Kobe as a better overall player all they want. He is. But he is not the most important nor the greatest LAKER. Magic is. By any measure. Rings, finals appearances, impact on the franchise, impact on the league and impact on the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 28, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 So when do player abilities factor in? Because Michael Cooper has as many rings as Magic as well, so does that make him a greater Laker than Kobe Bryant? As many "Kobe Kult" fans you see, you'll find just as many "Magic Minions" in Lakerland, all who think he's arguably greater than Michael Jordan, so I don't see why something like that has to be mentioned in this topic. Magic has one more ring than Bryant, with a far superior team over a course of a full decade of basketball. That's it. Earvin was a Laker for 13 seasons, Bryant at 14. Kobe has had the greater performances, and he's the better overall player (this you agree with). So other than championship rings, which Magic has only one-upped on Bryant...what else has Johnson done for the LAKERS that Kobe hasn't? The Magic/Bird/Jordan trio is what changed basketball in the 80's, not just Magic himself...and the truth is, it was Jordan who brought the interest back to the playgrounds, with kids wanting to be like him, and it was he who raked in deals with the likes of Nike, McDonald's, and many others that significantly helped the NBA turn into a media giant, but even then, that wasn't just for the Lakers, Celtics or Bulls, that was for the league. The impact isn't shown today because the NBA is already global. Is there any doubt that Kobe could've done the same thing, assuming he came into the league with someone like LeBron at a time when the NBA needed that extra boost? The greatest Laker should be the greatest player to play in a Lakers jersey. Being the better overall player has a lot to do with that, or else Cooper trumps Bryant, and that's just ridiculous, to say the least. By the way, I think it's close enough to be a tie, in my opinion...but there's only one choice available for each member, so yeah... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenneral Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I'm not a Kobe fan at all. Actually, he's probably one of my least favorite players in the league. However, with that said I think even at this point he's the greatest Laker in franchise history. He'll definitely finish with the most rings and he's already proven himself as one of the best players in the league year in and year out. Kobe gets my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Wilt played four full seasons with us, and his best years came earlier.you said Kobe is the best player to ever put a Lakers uniform on. That is wrong. Wilt put a Lakers uniform on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 So when do player abilities factor in? Because Michael Cooper has as many rings as Magic as well, so does that make him a greater Laker than Kobe Bryant? The Devean George strawman. You have to lead the team and win, not just win. I think Fisher is the worst starting point guard in the league and has been for some time yet he has four rings. Player abilities factor in when discussing who is the greatest overall player for the Lakers. Then and only then Kobe wins. But that's not the question, it's greatest Laker. btw Magic Minions (props for that) are fewer in number than the Kult. Magic has one more ring than Bryant, Precisely, which makes him a more valuable and greater Laker. How can you possibly put someone ahead of Magic who has less rings? You can't. It's absurd. The greatest contribution to the franchise is rings. Magic has more and he was the leader of those teams. with a far superior team over a course of a full decade of basketball. That's it. Earvin was a Laker for 13 seasons, Bryant at 14. Kobe has had the greater performances, and he's the better overall player (this you agree with). Superior team in a different era when it was possible to build a super team, but they also faced superior opponents. Bird Celtics, Doc Sixers and the Bad Boys would wipe the floor with the Laker Threepeat finals opponents. The Lakers were far superior but so were their finals opponents, can't cherry pick one side of it while ignoring the other half of the equation. So other than championship rings, which Magic has only one-upped on Bryant...what else has Johnson done for the LAKERS that Kobe hasn't? Three more finals appearances. Made the franchise immensely valuable which allowed Staples to happen etc. Kobe has certainly played a role in expanding the value of the franchise as well, but Magic's task was more difficult, he entered a league in trouble and when he left the league was transformed. That gets swept under the table a lot. It shouldn't. The Magic/Bird/Jordan trio is what changed basketball in the 80's, not just Magic himself...and the truth is, it was Jordan who brought the interest back to the playgrounds, with kids wanting to be like him, and it was he who raked in deals with the likes of Nike, McDonald's, and many others that significantly helped the NBA turn into a media giant, but even then, that wasn't just for the Lakers, Celtics or Bulls, that was for the league. Magic's style of basketball brought fans and media back to the game. Finals on tape delay. Unthinkable now. Magic vs. Bird was the foundation. Magic's joy for the game was infectious. Find a fan who wasn't fond of Showtime, how basketball should be played. Magic was the engine, Bird was the rival. Jordan came after Magic and Bird had already brought the league back from the drug era. What Jordan did was pioneer athlete as pitchman and usher in a generation that saw a shift from team only to player first. Magic and Bird brought the game back. Jordan introduced the star-driven NBA business model. The impact isn't shown today because the NBA is already global. Is there any doubt that Kobe could've done the same thing, assuming he came into the league with someone like LeBron at a time when the NBA needed that extra boost? Kobe's talent would be the same, his charisma, not so much. The greatest Laker should be the greatest player to play in a Lakers jersey. Being the better overall player has a lot to do with that, or else Cooper trumps Bryant, and that's just ridiculous, to say the least. The greatest Laker should be the leader who delivered the most rings and had the most impact on the franchise. The best overall player is a different argument. It's player vs. player. Greatest Laker means most value to the Lakers. That's undeniably Magic. By the way, I think it's close enough to be a tie, in my opinion...but there's only one choice available for each member, so yeah... Can't be a tie in my eyes. Magic has more rings and more impact for the franchise. Kobe may well surpass Magic, but he will have to get at least five rings before it can be debated. So we can revisit this in June. Until then the greatest Laker is Magic Johnson. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Our answers reflect the generation gap Real. The new school gravitates to their player first bias and basis, greatest is player vs. player. The old school goes to rings as king and their team first bias and basis. No bridging that gap, the values and perspectives are deeply entrenched. To me basketball is played to determine a team champion and the leader of the team that wins the most rings is unquestionably the greatest Laker. To you basketball is about the greatest player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 28, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 It's not about the greatest player, it's about what that player has to work with. I can't discredit what someone like Michael Jordan did in his first 5-6 seasons just because he dropped into a Chicago Bulls team with the likes of Oakley and Woolridge. I don't remember when Magic DIDN'T have solid teammates in the 80's. What happened after Kareem stopped being a threat on the floor? He averaged around 15 per game in their last championship, if I remember right (remembering this from Shaq/Kareem debates, so I may be off), and after that, Detroit ran off two consecutive titles, and Chicago took over while Magic was still in the league. I don't take away anything from Magic because of that, and I was hoping nobody would take away from Kobe when Shaq decided to gain 15 pounds, fix his injuries on company time, and demand more money (which led to his departure). So basically, this is what I understand already: if Kobe wins his fifth, he's in the debate. What happens if the Lakers make another run in 2010-11? Do six rings put him on top of Magic, despite everything you've provided us (as far as Magic's impact on the league goes)? For me, there's too much of a gray area. Chauncey Billups led a Pistons team to a championship in 2004, but does that make him the greater Detroit Piston between him and Dave Bing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 (edited) There's a gray area when there's debate on what composes greatest. For me there is no debate. The leader with most rings wins, unless there's an impact beyond the championships. Magic had a huge impact and more championships so to me that's it, end of story. When Kobe reaches five then there is a debate, I'd give a slight edge to Magic due to franchise impact, foundation, etc. But when Kobe gets to six and imo he will, then it's over. He'd be undisputed first. Bing vs. Billups I take Chauncey. Bing was good for a long time but Chauncey arrives and they win a ring and go to several finals. Bing had stats but not impact. But Chauncey loses all-time to Zeke. More rings, more impact and a clearly superior player. What the player has to work with is an argument pre-designed to favor Kobe. It's stacking the deck to get the result you want. Even then what did Magic do with the talent around him? Five rings and nine finals appearances against great finals opponents. Look at the Laker team around Magic when they played Chicago. Not that strong, yet they still got there - because of Magic. Edited December 28, 2009 by Sky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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