Owner Real Deal Posted December 27, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Kobe ran into him on purpose, and it was also a good flop by Mo Williams. If this were like Fisher's shoulder-block on Scola, it would be different. That was no flop, and Fisher literally threw his shoulder into Scola...but this wasn't that bad at all. Give him a fine, if anything. This is no different than a Garnett illegal screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Kobe ran into him on purpose, and it was also a good flop by Mo Williams. If this were like Fisher's shoulder-block on Scola, it would be different. That was no flop, and Fisher literally threw his shoulder into Scola...but this wasn't that bad at all. Give him a fine, if anything. This is no different than a Garnett illegal screen.Mo definitely didn't flop, he was completely blindsided by Kobe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 28, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Mo definitely didn't flop, he was completely blindsided by Kobe.Then if even part of that wasn't an acting job, he needs to put some weight on him or get thicker, because he bounced off Bryant pretty easily, despite Kobe not running full speed or driving his shoulder into him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Then if even part of that wasn't an acting job, he needs to put some weight on him or get thicker, because he bounced off Bryant pretty easily, despite Kobe not running full speed or driving his shoulder into him.Mo's a small guy. He's a skinny 3 point shooting point guard so one would expect him to bounce off of Kobe like that. I just can't imagine someone acting from a hit like that when they couldn't even see it coming, there just isn't enough time to react and think "I should flop to get the call." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I don't think any action will be taken whether it was purpose or not. I really don't think you can fine someone with something like that. Causethe arguement of running hard to try to come back seems to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornyWetPenguin Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 I'm a fan of both teams, and Kobe is up there as my favourite player, but honestly that was intentional. He shouldn't have done that. I hope he doesn't get suspended though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 28, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Mo's a small guy. He's a skinny 3 point shooting point guard so one would expect him to bounce off of Kobe like that. I just can't imagine someone acting from a hit like that when they couldn't even see it coming, there just isn't enough time to react and think "I should flop to get the call."Williams is 6-1, 190 pounds. Kobe is 6-6, 205. There's a 15-pound difference, and that's it. If this were LeBron, I could see Mo falling hard and going about five feet down the court. It was intentional and it was a flop. Both were idiots at that time. Kobe's arms didn't push away from his body, he didn't run his shoulder into Mo, and he wasn't even running to begin with, so if Williams really did fall like that, he's a bigger pansy than I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Williams is 6-1, 190 pounds. Kobe is 6-6, 205. There's a 15-pound difference, and that's it. If this were LeBron, I could see Mo falling hard and going about five feet down the court. It was intentional and it was a flop. Both were idiots at that time. Kobe's arms didn't push away from his body, he didn't run his shoulder into Mo, and he wasn't even running to begin with, so if Williams really did fall like that, he's a bigger pansy than I thought.I can understand your denial being a Laker fan, but watch the video again... Mo was looking in the OTHER direction that Kobe was coming from, and Kobe was also coming in at a decent speed and clearly put some force into his forearm before knocking into Mo. Mo IMMEDIATELY fell down after the contact. This wasn't a flop as if he was trying to draw a charge or something. Kobe knocked the much smaller Mo to the ground, and Kobe is much bigger and stronger than him. It was no accident, and there was clearly no flopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 28, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 If I had any denial being a biased Lakers fan, I would tell you it was accidental. I just don't see how someone just 15 pounds more can knock down another professional athlete without running at him, simple as that. My cousin has hit me with screens when I was younger, outweighed me by a good 40 pounds or so, and that's almost exactly how I fell on the ground, no more than that (and sometimes not falling at all). If he flopped, I was right. If he didn't, I'm right in calling him a wimp. Either one doesn't matter to me. As I mentioned earlier, Garnett sets illegal screens harder than that, much harder, and I've seen guards under 200 bounce right off of him without falling to the ground in pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenneral Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 He definitely didn't flop. He flew right off of Kobe immediately upon contact. When you're looking the other direction not expecting some idiot to come charging at you, of course you're going to go flying to the ground. Trust me, I've seen plenty of flops watching Bogut through the years, Mo 100% did not flop. That's just stupid to even think that, even if Kobe wasn't running full speed like you said... Mo WASN'T moving, period. He wasn't able to go back into Kobe a bit to counteract the hit, no, he was thrown to the floor without knowing what the hell just happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Neither flop nor worthy of a fine. It's very clear that Mo didn't flop. Mo was blind-sided and off balanced. Hop on one leg and let someone run at you full speed from the opposite free throw line, perhaps barely slowing down as they run into you. 15 pound advantage or not, you are bound to hit the ground pretty hard. I'm not sure whether what Kobe did was intentional, but it was a dick move to not at least take some sort of recognition or blame for what just happened. It was clearly out of frustration. Not worthy of a fine, though, it's too questionable whether or not it was intentional, or if he was even attempting to actually hurt Mo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 29, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 It's very clear that Mo didn't flop. Mo was blind-sided and off balanced. Hop on one leg and let someone run at you full speed from the opposite free throw line, perhaps barely slowing down as they run into you. 15 pound advantage or not, you are bound to hit the ground pretty hard.Wait, Kobe was running full speed, and Mo was on one leg? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Wait, Kobe was running full speed, and Mo was on one leg?Yes. From what I can make out from the video in this thread, Mo threw a hard one-handed pass and wasn't in complete balance. He was sort of taking a side step as Kobe ran into him. So he only had one leg entirely on the floor in mid step. And Kobe was in near full speed heading past half court - maybe 75% or something, the camera angle doesn't show - then slowed down just before heading into Mo. Either way, Mo was in an awkward position plus being blindsided, and Kobe ran directly into him at a descend speed and force enough to make Mo fall to the ground the way he did. Clearly not a flop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted December 29, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Yes. From what I can make out from the video in this thread, Mo threw a hard one-handed pass and wasn't in complete balance. He was sort of taking a side step as Kobe ran into him. So he only had one leg entirely on the floor in mid step. And Kobe was in near full speed heading past half court - maybe 75% or something, the camera angle doesn't show - then slowed down just before heading into Mo. Either way, Mo was in an awkward position plus being blindsided, and Kobe ran directly into him at a descend speed and force enough to make Mo fall to the ground the way he did. Clearly not a flop.He had both feet on the floor, moving forward and to the right slightly after the pass. I've watched it 20 times just now. And as I said, Kobe wasn't at full speed, or else Mo wouldn't have gotten up, considering the way he fell at the speed Bryant was running to begin with. In addition to that, after watching it over and over again, Kobe wasn't even looking at him. You can take a peek at it here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNM28C0XNF0 Kobe wasn't even looking at him the entire time, in fact, and that could've been Fisher he laid out. Careless by Bryant. Intentional or not, Mo needs to put on some strength, some weight, or something, because he didn't lay him out like Fisher did Scola, and as much as Kobe wasn't looking at Mo, Williams wasn't looking at him, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I don't want to spend too much extra time discussing this. Really, it's not that big of a deal, and as I said originally, there isn't enough clear evidence to call it intentional or not. Kobe could have seen him with his peripheral vision, or may have been completely unaware that Mo was there. Still a dick move not to pick him up or even tell him "my bad", but lack of sincerity shouldn't be worthy of a fine, anyway. For my last post in this thread, I still believe Kobe was at near full speed heading to half court. From the time it took for Kobe to get up off the floor (35 second mark of video) from the opposite baseline to where he crossed half court was 2 full seconds. Right at the 37 second mark he crossed half court heading to where Mo was standing at the 3 point line, and at about 38 and a half he bumped into Mo. He was going pretty fast past half court, and clearly was slowing down before hitting Mo. He was still at enough speed to put a guy smaller than him, who's not completely balanced and has no awareness of Kobe's presence, to make him fall. Again, easily not a flop, and it doesn't matter if Mo needs to put on weight or not. The fact is that he's 15 pounds under Kobe, and Kobe gave him enough direct contact to fall over. Maybe if Mo was prepared and had a good stance, he probably wouldn't have fallen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldChili Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I don't want to spend too much extra time discussing this. Really, it's not that big of a deal, and as I said originally, there isn't enough clear evidence to call it intentional or not. Kobe could have seen him with his peripheral vision, or may have been completely unaware that Mo was there. Still a dick move not to pick him up or even tell him "my bad", but lack of sincerity shouldn't be worthy of a fine, anyway.Along with that I believe Kobe looks at Williams at around the 1:07 and takes his eye off Williams just before the hit. To me it's clearly intentional, but not necessarily worth a fine or suspension. Looking at it in slow-mo doesn't look nearly as bad as it did at full speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravenewworld Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Love it. 25k fine for Kobe and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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