Michael Jordan Is Over-Rated

[DWhiTex34]

O.o o.O

o.O O.o

[EastCoastNiner]

Jordan's Playoff Stats

 

Season		G	FG%	3P%	FT%	MP	PTS	TRB	AST
1984-85		4	0.436	0.125	0.828	42.8	29.3	5.8	8.5
1985-86		3	0.505	1	0.872	45	43.7	6.3	5.7
1986-87		3	0.417	0.4	0.897	42.7	35.7	7	6
1987-88		10	0.531	0.333	0.869	42.7	36.3	7.1	4.7
1988-89		17	0.51	0.286	0.799	42.2	34.8	7	7.6
1989-90		16	0.514	0.32	0.836	42.1	36.7	7.2	6.8
1990-91		17	0.524	0.385	0.845	40.5	31.1	6.4	8.4
1991-92		22	0.499	0.386	0.857	41.8	34.5	6.2	5.8
1992-93		19	0.475	0.389	0.805	41.2	35.1	6.7	6
1994-95		10	0.484	0.367	0.81	42	31.5	6.5	4.5
1995-96		18	0.459	0.403	0.818	40.7	30.7	4.9	4.1
1996-97		19	0.456	0.194	0.831	42.3	31.1	7.9	4.8
1997-98		21	0.462	0.302	0.812	41.5	32.4	5.1	3.5
Career		179	0.487	0.332	0.828	41.8	33.4	6.4	5.7

 

That is why people always sing his praises, he got it done when the most people were watching. Granted the competition wasn't the best, but it just looked as if he were dominating whoever stood in front of him.

 

Over his career, 33 PPG, 6 RPG, 6 APG in the 'offs. That can't be denied. Other than 3 years, he led the league in scoring in the 'offs. That is most likely in the top 5 of playoff stat lines over a career.

 

By contrast, Kobe to this point, has produced 25, 5, and 5 in the 'offs. That's where most people see the comparison between them as going to Jordan.

 

I do agree with you that Kobe is more skilled. It's pretty easy to see...Kobe has more ways to get his shot off and get to the basket. Jordan kept 2-3 moves in the bank and used those exclusively. But Kobe still has more work to do.

 

Thank you for an actual response instead of, "This thread is dumb" comments because they can't back anything up.

 

I understand that his playoff numbers were excellent, but that was with Scottie Pippen, and a 1-9 playoff record without Scottie Pippen really stands out to me.

 

I know that no one player is going to win a Championship, but I think that record speaks a lo for itself, and the fact that the Chicago Bulls only lost two more games the year after Michael Jordan first retired.

 

If they only lost two more games the following season, I really don't see how people can say that it was only Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, when if face, Horrace Grant and Dennis Rodman were extremely important parts of the team.

[YugoRocketsFan]

Thank you for an actual response instead of, "This thread is dumb" comments because they can't back anything up.

 

I understand that his playoff numbers were excellent, but that was with Scottie Pippen, and a 1-9 playoff record without Scottie Pippen really stands out to me.

 

I know that no one player is going to win a Championship, but I think that record speaks a lo for itself, and the fact that the Chicago Bulls only lost two more games the year after Michael Jordan first retired.

 

If they only lost two more games the following season, I really don't see how people can say that it was only Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, when if face, Horrace Grant and Dennis Rodman were extremely important parts of the team.

 

They didnt win rings when Jordan was retired and when he came back they won. Coincidence?

[EastCoastNiner]

They didnt win rings when Jordan was retired and when he came back they won. Coincidence?

 

No.

 

I never said he wasn't great, but he needed his team-mates just as much as they needed him.

 

 

1-9 playoff record without Scottie Pippen is very telling.

[Flash]

No.

 

I never said he wasn't great, but he needed his team-mates just as much as they needed him.

 

 

1-9 playoff record without Scottie Pippen is very telling.

 

Ok but what great player doesn't? Kobe's had tremendous supporting casts throughout all 4 of his title runs. J

 

ordan is still the GOAT just lock the thread already.

[EastCoastNiner]

Ok but what great player doesn't? Kobe's had tremendous supporting casts throughout all 4 of his title runs. J

 

ordan is still the GOAT just lock the thread already.

 

Scottie Pippen had a better playoff record, and as I said, Scottie Pippen only had one losing season without Michael Jordan, and Michael Jordan had 5 losing seasons, and missed the playoffs twice.

[Flash]

Scottie Pippen had a better playoff record, and as I said, Scottie Pippen only had one losing season without Michael Jordan, and Michael Jordan had 5 losing seasons, and missed the playoffs twice.

 

And? Are you saying Scottie was better than Jordan?

 

What exactly makes Jordan not the GOAT.

[EastCoastNiner]

And? Are you saying Scottie was better than Jordan?

 

What exactly makes Jordan not the GOAT.

 

No, I'm saying people vastly over-rate what Michael Jordan has done, and that people vastly under-rated Scottie Pippen.

 

I hate the Lakers, but I still think that Kobe Bryant is more skilled than Michael Jordan, especially on the offensive side of the ball, and even on the defensive side of the ball.

[moeroadkill]

i think your underrating what it take to actually win a ring

okay, Kobe is more skilled than MJ on the offensive side we got that but MJ still putt up better number thoughtout his whole career. doesn't matter how he gets his points if it as long as he can do it, and do it in a efficient rate then it shouldnt matter if your more skilled than the other guy

[Flash]

No, I'm saying people vastly over-rate what Michael Jordan has done, and that people vastly under-rated Scottie Pippen.

 

I hate the Lakers, but I still think that Kobe Bryant is more skilled than Michael Jordan, especially on the offensive side of the ball, and even on the defensive side of the ball.

 

So we're just going to discount Jordan winning DPOY and being All Defensive First Team 88-93 and 96-98?

[EastCoastNiner]

i think your underrating what it take to actually win a ring

okay, Kobe is more skilled than MJ on the offensive side we got that but MJ still putt up better number thoughtout his whole career. doesn't matter how he gets his points if it as long as he can do it, and do it in a efficient rate then it shouldnt matter if your more skilled than the other guy

 

I'm not trying to necessarily downgrade what Michael Jordan has accomplished because there is no doubt that it is great, but people over-rated his accomplishments.

 

It's tough to compare stats from different era's, but Michael Jordan was a complete ball-hog and had made negative comments about his teammates not taking a particular shot because they weren't good enough.

 

I'm just throwing this out there.

 

There were six expansion teams that entered the league during Michael Jordan's prime, and that is part of the watered down competition he faced.

[EastCoastNiner]

So we're just going to discount Jordan winning DPOY and being All Defensive First Team 88-93 and 96-98?

 

He shouldn't have won some of those, as I stated in my first post.

 

Yes, he was one of the best defensive guards in NBA history early in his career, but as his career went on, he was winning some awards based off of his name, and not his actual skill at that point.

 

Honestly, he wasn't even the best defensive guard on his own team later in his career when Ron Harper was on the same team.

 

So, yes, he was an excellent defender for a while, but some of the awards later in his career were based off of who he was.

 

 

I''m glad I'm getting some actual responses, something "Agent Gil" and "Smitty" can't do.

[platoon793]

lmfao this is possibly the stupidest thread i've ever seen. You can say Jordan had Pippen but Kobe had Shaq and now Gasol. Not only did Jordan play in a completely different era but in a completely different game. It was a way more physical game where hand checks weren't called, and you had to earn your points. Also, think about the competition he had compared to what Kobe has to go through, not even close to each other.

 

Jordan is better than Kobe, case closed.

Bingo. I'm glad someone mentioned this.

[moeroadkill]

just throwing this out there as well.

thunder/sonics, grizz, wolves, warriors, wizards(this year), Toronto, Clippers, kings they arnt 'watered down teams' also? also did them watered down teams make the WCF ECF and finals?

 

Michael Jordan was feared. by everyone his team mates and his oppositions only way for him to get the fear/respect is to make them comments. but even with comments said did it effect him winning? no. his team mates listened and he won.

[Flash]

I'm not trying to necessarily downgrade what Michael Jordan has accomplished because there is no doubt that it is great, but people over-rated his accomplishments.

 

It's tough to compare stats from different era's, but Michael Jordan was a complete ball-hog and had made negative comments about his teammates not taking a particular shot because they weren't good enough.

 

I'm just throwing this out there.

 

There were six expansion teams that entered the league during Michael Jordan's prime, and that is part of the watered down competition he faced.

 

So then what's Kobe? If I'm not mistaken Jordan averaged more career assists than Kobe. Also, didn't Kobe make a video trashing Andrew Bynum and asking for him to be traded? The expansion teams isn't a big factor because they won their titles against teams in the West. If anything, Kobe's titles are less impressive because of how weak the East was at that time.

[EastCoastNiner]

just throwing this out there as well.

thunder/sonics, grizz, wolves, warriors, wizards(this year), Toronto, Clippers, kings they arnt 'watered down teams' also? also did them watered down teams make the WCF ECF and finals?

 

Michael Jordan was feared. by everyone his team mates and his oppositions only way for him to get the fear/respect is to make them comments. but even with comments said did it effect him winning? no. his team mates listened and he won.

 

Every year there are going to be teams that aren't good, but there aren't always teams that are starting from scratch, which is the difference.

 

 

Also, addressing the hand-checks, you are correct, but players back then, ESPECIALLY Michael Jordan could get away with pushing and offensive fouls on the offensive side of the ball.

 

It worked both ways.

[Flash]

I would really like to hear your opinion on my response ECN.

[Jenneral]

This thread is a joke.

 

It's basically ECN being a dumbass and thinking he's right when he has nothing to back his opinion. All the proof points to Jordan being the better player. There's no room for debate here. Jordan is the greatest of all time. I honestly don't see Kobe passing what Jordan has accomplished either. You keep mentioning the different era's, then why not stop comparing the two. Can't they both be great players?

 

So ECN, just quit while your down (can't say ahead since you never really were). You're making yourself look like a fool.

[Jenneral]

Also ECN, I'm starting to wonder if that guy in your avatar is actually you?

[EastCoastNiner]

I would really like to hear your opinion on my response ECN.

 

I didn't see your post.

 

Yes, Kobe Bryant did trash his teammate, and I did not like that at all, but I'm trying to say that Michael Jordan would tell people that he thought certain players on his team weren't good enough, similar to what Kobe Bryant said one time, but Michael Jordan has a history of it.

 

You know as well as I do that APG don't tell the whole story, and I'm sure you're smart enough to realize that, and the difference wasn't that great, and it helped that Michael Jordan had the ball in his hands all of the time.

 

I will still say that he didn't face great competition in the playoffs and the NBA Finals, but that wasn't the point of me mentioning expansion teams.

 

I'm saying that you are going to score more points and have better stats in the Regular Season, and yes, I know I am pushing it with this part of the argument, but it is something to consider.

 

 

Seriously, only a few people, "ALCS", "Flash", and "MoeRoadKill" have given any reasons to this discussion.

 

I find it humorous that everybody else is saying, "Wow, you have nothing to back your statements up with" and "Wow, you don't know what you're talking about" when none of you have given any reasons AT ALL. .

[EastCoastNiner]

Also ECN, I'm starting to wonder if that guy in your avatar is actually you?

 

Nahh, he looks similar to your butt buddy though.

[Jenneral]

Nahh, he looks similar to your butt buddy though.

Ouch, that stings a little.

[kingfish]

I think ECN has made some good points. MJ was 1-9 without Pippen in the playoffs, Kobe won 3 playoff games in one season with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Devean George, Luke Walton, Brian Cook, Vujacic, and some other rookies.

 

I dont agree with everything ECN is saying though. MJ had 35+ ppg on 50 % and he did it with ease, Kobe barely manged to get 35 ppg in his best season on 45 % shooting. Yeah the competition wasnt as good, but he still did it. It was only like the mid 90's were talking about, and even without Pippen MJ still dominated by himself. If your trying to say Kobe makes his teammates better then MJ does, yeah you might have a point. I mean, Kobe did do better with less. MJ playing alongside the greatest rebounder ever, and a top 50 NBA player. Kobe having an all star reserve on his team who most people and people on here would admittedly say he is soft.

 

I would also like to point out, 81/62 in 3, 50 in 4 straight >>> MJ.

Edited July 5, 2009 by kingfish

[EastCoastNiner]

I think ECN has made some good points. MJ was 1-9 without Pippen in the playoffs, Kobe won 3 playoff games in one season with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Devean George, Luke Walton, Brian Cook, Vujacic, and some other rookies.

 

I dont agree with everything ECN is saying though. MJ had 35+ ppg on 50 % and he did it with ease, Kobe barely manged to get 35 ppg in his best season on 45 % shooting. Yeah the competition wasnt as good, but he still did it. It was only like the mid 90's were talking about, and even without Pippen MJ still dominated by himself. If your trying to say Kobe makes his teammates better then MJ does, yeah you might have a point. I mean, Kobe did do better with less. MJ playing alongside the greatest rebounder ever, and a top 50 NBA player. Kobe having an all star reserve on his team who most people and people on here would admittedly say he is soft.

 

I would also like to point out, 81/62 in 3 >>> MJ.

 

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

Out of everybody on "otr", you are the last person that I though would actually partially agree, and surprisingly, actually gave some reasoning unlike many people that have posted in this thread.

[Dr. Feelgood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dYpnd_9TFs