MVP- Kobe vs. LeBron?

[Cleveland's Finest]

At this point in the season, do you guys think it's basically a two player race between Kobe and LeBron? Realistically; not like you say Steve Nash can still win it. Is anyone else really in contention?

 

I know you can say guys like Melo, but look at LeBron and Kobe right now compared to Melo. Kobe's hitting game winners weekly and the two are playing all-around game with their teammates injured. (Kobe's playing injured himself.) Melo's missed a lot of games and Billups has helped a lot imo.

 

I think if the Heat improve and go on a huge streak, then it could be Wade/LeBron/Kobe, but what do you guys think?

Edited February 3, 2010 by Cleveland's Finest

[YugoRocketsFan]

Yes, its basically just a 2-man race.

[JWaLL]

Not another Kobe/Lebron thread that will lead to people comparing them...

 

It will be between just them 2. Wade has not played efficiently enough to be a high runner up. Nash is the only other possibility, and the Suns have had horrible road game skids which has been killing their record after their amazing start.

 

So yeah, it will be either Lebron or Kobe for MVP.

[Check my Stats]

It is not a 2 man race, LeBron is the MVP without a doubt.

[Poe]

As of right now, it's a two-man race... obviously. LeBron is way out in front at this point, though.

 

If Wade goes bananas and averages like 40 a game for the next few months, maybe the talks will open up for one more player. LeBron will be winning MVP regardless.

[The Regime]

If the season ended today, LeBron would win MVP without question. But I think by the end of the season Kobe will make a case for MVP, just a gut feeling.

[BeeZee]

Right now, LeBron is the MVP. But yeah, it's a two-man race that Kobe could still win depending on what happens in these next couple of months.

[Flash]

You guys are severely overlooking Kevin Durant.

[BeeZee]

You guys are severely overlooking Kevin Durant.

 

The Thunder's record won't be good enough to warrant him being MVP at the end of the season.

[Redneck]

Right now I'd go with Lebron.

 

Kobe has been struggling at times with his injuries, and Lebron has been healthy and that has given him the advantage in my opinion.

[Big Penny]

it depends on team record mainly. if Lakers finish 5+ games ahead of Cavs, thats the only way is see Kobe getting MVP

[bravenewworld]

The Thunder's record won't be good enough to warrant him being MVP at the end of the season.

 

Dunno about that.

OKC is 3 games behind 3rd place in the West and even if they get a lower seed he is still very much deserving of the title (Last season the 8th seed in the West had almost 50 wins). Well over Lebron and Kobe given his circumstances.

 

Last season the Thunder were 23-59 and scheduled to be the 4th overall pick in the draft.

In the off season they failed to add anyone significant, Harden is a wonderful player but right now he is nothing more then a questionable 10ppg mediocre defensive rookie.

This season they are play-off bound with only 3 legitimate options on the team (one of them being Durant himself)and a bunch of okay players. This team should NOT be in the play-offs at all, but Durant's skill and leadership is turning the near impossible into possible.

 

And whats more impressive is we see this guy getting better and better day after day, especially with his offensive abilities.

Starting off in October at 25 PPG at 41% FG, 28% from the 3

November he hit 27.7 PPG

December rose to 29.7 PPG

and January climbed up to 32.1 PPG and ended up with 51% FG shooting and an astonishing 53% for 3 pointers.

Typically players tend to drop off and level out as months go on. Not this guy.

 

Kevin Durant = NBA MVP no question.

Edited February 5, 2010 by bravenewworld

[JWaLL]

Kevin Durant = NBA MVP no question.

[bravenewworld]

 

No one else has been as impressive.

Kobe is Kobe. We know he is a badass. But if you take him off that team and give them a quarter of a season to learn to play without him, then that team could still probably make the WCFs.

LBJ is in a similar situation. His team probably wouldn't make the ECFs but they would be in the play-offs and could last until the second round.

You take Durant off the Thunder and they are at 25% in the draft, not 3 games behind 3rd in the insanely rough West.

[DaaBoTownSox]

It is not a 2 man race, LeBron is the MVP without a doubt.

 

Yeah, pretty much.

[JWaLL]

No one else has been as impressive.

Kobe is Kobe. We know he is a badass. But if you take him off that team and give them a quarter of a season to learn to play without him, then that team could still probably make the WCFs.

LBJ is in a similar situation. His team probably wouldn't make the ECFs but they would be in the play-offs and could last until the second round.

You take Durant off the Thunder and they are at 25% in the draft, not 3 games behind 3rd in the insanely rough West.

Cavs - Lebron = Lottery team

 

Lakers - Kobe = Low playoff seed

 

Thunder - Durant = Lottery team

 

Durant is in the same boat as Lebron as far as his importance to the team, but he isn't putting up numbers like Lebron. So he won't give Lebron a run for his money for this award.

[Check my Stats]

Lol Durant is doing good, and should definitely get some consideration, but LeBron is easily the MVP. Let's not kid ourselves, Durant has some solid support right now, but LeBron has mediocre support at best and their team is the BEST in the entire NBA right now.

 

The amount of stock put into 'best player on the best team', combined with the fact LeBron's numbers are so gaudy overall, he is the easy selection for MVP right now, and will be for the next half a decade at least.

 

If you are calling Durant the 'easy MVP', then Bosh should be the 'easy MVP' as well because his team's record is almost the same and he is dominating almost as much as KD is. (This is just an example that I can relate to being a Raptors fan, can't think of any else, just making a point).

 

LeBron is first with a huge dropoff with Kobe/Dirk behind him. If Thunder pull their record up a bit okay, but a guy on a team without 50 wins is not getting considered for MVP ever. Durant this year is just doing what LeBron and Wade have been doing the past 7 years, making mediocre teams good, Wade/LBJ didn't win MVP in those seasons and Durant won't now even though the situation is almost identical.

 

You won't win MVP unless your team is top 3 in the league or your numbers are absolutely insane, and neither of those things apply to KD.

Edited February 5, 2010 by travesy3

[Real Deal]

Wow. Three things:

 

1) Don't underestimate what LeBron has for a team. The same people did this with Allen Iverson and his "terrible supporting cast" in 2001. Cleveland is a defensive-minded team that can shoot the rock extremely well, and they are coached by a defensive-minded coach. 2001 Sixers? Iverson, the scorer, with a defensive-minded team that can knock down shots, coached by Larry Brown? Don't kid yourself. The NBA is a team game. The Cavaliers would NOT win 65+ games in any season if LeBron didn't have a good supporting cast. Stop looking at big-name players and check out what his team can do as a whole.

 

2) See the last sentence in #1. The Lakers would not be a 50-win team without Bryant, and I would bet any amount of money on it. They are in the middle of the pack offensively, and would be a worse defensive team without Bryant's defense on the perimeter. Just imagine if they lost Bryant's 30 PLUS his facilitating (running the offense). What player in Los Angeles would be able to make post entry passes? What player would draw doubles and kick out to the open shooter? Would Derek Fisher succeed in defending Rajon Rondo in the playoffs? The Lakers would be a 45-win team, at best.

 

3) If you want an MVP, your team needs 50 wins. Kevin Durant should definitely be in the discussion, but the fact remains that the team record does influence the voters quite a bit. The Thunder are on pace to win 47 games, based on their current win percentage. Maybe that will be enough, but Cleveland will hit 60, and LeBron is the better overall player at this point. Voters will stick with LBJ over Durant.

[Hero]

Now, I have never supported Lebron James, nor will I ever, but this guy has been putting up astounding numbers. LBJ is a freak of nature. His team has the best record in the NBA. If the season ended right now, I personally would vote for Lebron as the MVP. I don't like it, but I'm not biased either. I just hope the Cavs don't make it to the second round of the playoffs.

[Poe]

1) Don't underestimate what LeBron has for a team. The same people did this with Allen Iverson and his "terrible supporting cast" in 2001. Cleveland is a defensive-minded team that can shoot the rock extremely well, and they are coached by a defensive-minded coach. 2001 Sixers? Iverson, the scorer, with a defensive-minded team that can knock down shots, coached by Larry Brown? Don't kid yourself. The NBA is a team game. The Cavaliers would NOT win 65+ games in any season if LeBron didn't have a good supporting cast. Stop looking at big-name players and check out what his team can do as a whole.

 

+1

 

 

 

The Cavaliers and Lakers teams are both nearly equal as a whole team, but their approach to the supporting cast of their best player is different. LeBron is the centerpiece to the Cavs' offensive gameplan and is surrounded by players who are strictly meant to compliment his game, whereas Kobe is mixed with talented individual players capable of creating their own shots effectively and leads them by taking a load of pressure off his teammates by making plays when the rest of the team is struggling.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Poe

[Cleveland's Finest]

I think Mo and Shaq can create their own shots though.

[Poe]

I think Mo and Shaq can create their own shots though.

Not to the extent that either would require a double team, even if LeBron would get an injury. Mo was never a 20ppg caliber scorer even before heading to Cleveland, and Shaq to is too old to be a consistent threat and is only averaging 12 ppg this year. Other than that, with LeBron James in mind, it turns out AV has become the Cavs fourth best scorer statistically this year.

 

I'm not saying that these guys are bad players. The Cavs are a very good defensive team with shooters to spread the floor, athletic slashers, and bigs who can finish down low. All of which compliments LBJ's game and makes everything easier for him to succeed, and therefore bring Cavalier Ws. They just lack creators, which is why they look so bad offensively with LeBron on the bench.

 

 

The Lakers, however, have three players who would potentially average 20ppg on bad teams (Artest, Gasol, Bynum), and also a guy off the bench who has proven to be able to make plays himself (Lamar Odom). It doesn't necessarily make them a better team than the Cavs, though I personally believe they will win the championship again this year. It's just that the Cavs rely more heavily on their star player, much like the Suns rely so heavily on Steve Nash, where the offense and support cast made Nash thrive therefore the Suns thrive.

[Check my Stats]

On a player by player basis I think you are wrong in saying their casts are equal, in fact it isn't even close. Like RD said in another thread the Lakers have like 5 guys capable of averaging 15+ a game, the Cavaliers have 2, maybe 3 if Shaq can actually play every game but that is still shaky.

 

You make a good point though, LeBron's cast compliments his game perfectly, which is what makes them so great. Of course the Lakers would be worse off without Kobe but they would probably be able to adjust much easier because of the individual talent they have is so much better. LeBron is probably in on or responsible for like 70% of the Cavaliers buckets. He plays PG and SF for this team basically. You take LeBron out of the offense they will be the worst offensive team in the NBA, or close to it. If you take Kobe off LA they are obviously worse, but they just have too much talent for me to be convinced they are not a borderline 50 win team.

 

That is what separates LeBron and Kobe IMO, LeBron can't have a bad game because no one can pick him up. But if Kobe doesn't have it working he has Pau, Bynum and Artest and even Odom who can pick up the slack offensively. If LeBron is stinking with his jumper he will just go out and get 15 assists. Kobe will just continue to launch 18 footers, or just dump to a big. LeBron has the load offensively all the time, especially with Mo out.

 

Personally I just can't wait to see what happens if LeBron plays with a legitimate all-star in the future. I wonder if he is capable of playing off the ball. I wonder if the Cavaliers would be truly better with Jamison or Stoudemire in the mix. I think LeBron is the only player in the NBA that could make any team he is on great.

[Poe]

Neither team is as good without their star player. That goes for any team. I am saying, though, that the Cavs rely on LeBron even more so than the Lakers, because nearly everything in their offense goes through him, whereas the Lakers have other creators.

 

LeBron doesn't absolutely need to have a monster performance each game in order to win. If that was the case, the Cavs wouldn't have been a 66 win team last year. Thing is, the Cavs have enough defense to hang with any team, much like the Charlotte Bobcats. Their defense will keep them in games, it's James offensive dominance that puts them over the top, plus a supporting cast that compliments his game so well offensive and makes everything easier for him to make plays, while he makes things easier for his teammates. It's like a two-way street. The team needs LeBron and LeBron needs the team.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Poe

[Real Deal]

When LeBron isn't playing well, he can just drive and kick the ball out. The Cavaliers are easily one of the most dangerous shooting teams in the NBA. They don't have another 25+ PPG scorer, but they have about 3-4 shooters who can drop 10-15 points on open jumpers alone, and defense that has been holding teams good enough to make them 3rd in the NBA.

 

And it shows in Cleveland's offense, also...as they are 5th in the NBA in points per 100 possessions.

 

Meanwhile, the Lakers are sitting at 4th in defense, but 9th offensively.

 

Big names don't necessarily compliment each other. When have you guys seen the Suns in the NBA Finals? Nash, Amare, Johnson, Marion, Barbosa...big names back then, but they couldn't get over the hump. Kobe, Shaq, Malone and Payton? They found their way to the Finals after beating Garnett and a Wolves team that some of you should compare to the Cavaliers, as far as build goes...but the Lakers were routed in the Finals by a real team with no true primary scorer.

 

LeBron has an excellent cast that can do many things on the court. He has shooting guards, slashing guards, athletic forwards, a true center, a versatile shooting center, a defensive-minded forward/center, a scoring power forward, and a defensive-minded coach. That's a scary team to contain.