Top 5 SFs

[SRT Spidey]

1. Lebron James

2. Carmelo Anthony

3. Paul Pierce

4. Kevin Durant

5. Danny Granger

[MainEv3nt]

1. Josh Howard

[The Regime]

1. LeBron James

2. Carmelo Anthony

3. Kevin Durant

4. Josh Smith

5. Paul Pierce

[YugoRocketsFan]

1. Lebron

2. Durant

3. Melo

4. Paul Pierce

5. Danny Granger

[Real Deal]

1) LeBron James

2) Kevin Durant

3) Carmelo Anthony

4) Gerald Wallace

5) Paul Pierce

 

Gerald Wallace is averaging 19 points, 11 rebounds, shooting 48% from the floor and plays excellent defense. All of that is better than what Paul Pierce is producing for Boston.

[Built Ford Tough]

1. LeBron James

2. Carmelo Anthony

3. Kevin Durant

4. Gerald Wallace

5. Paul Pierce.

 

I find it funny how nobody has mentioned Wallace yet and have somebody like Danny Granger ahead of him.

 

EDIT: Just saw the above post. Its actually a shame that it took 5 posts before somebody mentioned Wallace with the way that he has played this season.

Edited February 12, 2010 by Built Ford Tough

[Real Deal]

Yeah, Wallace is playing out of his mind this year, and you can't really say he's just boosting his stats on a bad team. He's one of the best rebounding small forwards I've seen since Charles Barkley (who could actually play both forward positions most of his career, as does Wallace).

[Poe]

1. LeBron James

2. Kevin Durant

3. Carmello Anthony

4. Gerald Wallace

5. Paul Peirce

[JWaLL]

1. Lebron James

2. Kevin Durant

3. Carmello Anthony

4. Gerald Wallace

5. Paul Pierce

 

The top 5 should be unanimous. The only debatable thing would be the number 2 and 3 spot between Durant and Melo.

[Celtics3420]

1. Lebron James

2. Kevin Durant

3. Carmello Anthony

4. Gerald Wallace

5. Paul Pierce

 

The top 5 should be unanimous. The only debatable thing would be the number 2 and 3 spot between Durant and Melo.

 

 

Basically my list.

[ChosenOne]

1. Lebron James

2. Kevin Durant

3. Carmello Anthony

4. Gerald Wallace

5. Paul Pierce

 

The top 5 should be unanimous. The only debatable thing would be the number 2 and 3 spot between Durant and Melo.

 

Same. Melo would have been ahead of Durant if he had not got injured.

[Big Penny]

1. Lebron

2. Melo

3. Durantula

4. Gerald

5. Paula

[bravenewworld]

1) LeBron James

2) Kevin Durant

3) Carmelo Anthony

4) Gerald Wallace

5) Paul Pierce

 

Gerald Wallace is averaging 19 points, 11 rebounds, shooting 48% from the floor and plays excellent defense. All of that is better than what Paul Pierce is producing for Boston.

 

So are you saying that if you had a team that needed a SF you would pick Gerald Wallace over Pierce?

Pierce is easily an A defender with an elitists offensive skill set and to top it off is a team leader.

[bravenewworld]

1. Kevin Durant

2. Paul Pierce

3. Lebron James

4. Carmello Anthony

5. Ron Artest

 

For the past three seasons Ron Artest has been able to put up 17-20 offensive averages with pretty even FG/3%s, This season he is only averaging 11ppg, but i do not think that means he is only limited to that rather his offensive situation has obviously changed. Add all that in with being labeled as arguably the best defensive player in the NBA and he deserves a spot on a top 5.

 

The rest of the guys everyone else has.

BTW, Durant has been more impressive this season then LBJ has IMO.

Pierce is an elitist who can lead his team to a title.

[YugoRocketsFan]

1. Kevin Durant

2. Paul Pierce

3. Lebron James

4. Carmello Anthony

5. Ron Artest

 

For the past three seasons Ron Artest has been able to put up 17-20 offensive averages with pretty even FG/3%s, This season he is only averaging 11ppg, but i do not think that means he is only limited to that rather his offensive situation has obviously changed. Add all that in with being labeled as arguably the best defensive player in the NBA and he deserves a spot on a top 5.

 

The rest of the guys everyone else has.

BTW, Durant has been more impressive this season then LBJ has IMO.

Pierce is an elitist who can lead his team to a title.

 

3 letters come to mind when I see your list, W T F.

[Real Deal]

So are you saying that if you had a team that needed a SF you would pick Gerald Wallace over Pierce?

Pierce is easily an A defender with an elitists offensive skill set and to top it off is a team leader.

Pierce is not an "A" defender. He's nowhere near Artest, Battier, Afflalo, Smith, Howard, Oden, Hinrich, Wallace, Kobe, or Roy.

 

His leadership skills got him nowhere just last season, when Garnett was out. He had Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo and Kendrick Perkins...yet he nearly lost to the Bulls and ended up dropping the series to Orlando.

 

His skill set consists of the three-point shot (improved this season) and his elbow jumper. It seems that's where he scores most of his points with these days.

 

An "elitist" offensive skillset is contained by the likes of Kobe and Duncan. Wade comes close. Nash is almost there. Durant is almost there. Paul Pierce doesn't fit.

 

Pierce's ring on his finger doesn't make him the best (or second best) small forward in the NBA, just as Billups' 2004 ring doesn't make him better than Deron, CP3 or Nash.

[Real Deal]

In addition to that, I'm one of the biggest Durant fans on OTR, and I consider him an MVP candidate...but he's not better than LeBron, offensively and definitely not defensively.

 

And Pierce sure the hell isn't better than LeBron. It's not even close.

[AboveLegit]

I agree with most lists, but Gerald Wallace over Pierce?

 

Yeah he beats him on rebounding and defense, but that's it. Pierce is the better scorer, playmaker, and I'll take him over Wallace any day of the week to lead my team to the championship. I've seen a lot of Bobcats games, and Gerald Wallace loves to drive. He doesn't have a great outside shot, he's not a great passer, and he definitely doesn't get his teammates as involved as Pierce does.

 

Here's my list:

 

1. LeBron

2. Melo

3. Durant

4. Pierce

5. Wallace

 

How is Durant better than Melo. Granted, I'm a huge fan of both, but this isn't as close as people make it out to be. Melo is still arguably the better scorer, he has the better post game, he's a better defender, and a better rebounder. I don't see how people believe Durant is the better player right now.

[bravenewworld]

Pierce is not an "A" defender. He's nowhere near Artest, Battier, Afflalo, Smith, Howard, Oden, Hinrich, Wallace, Kobe, or Roy.

 

His leadership skills got him nowhere just last season, when Garnett was out. He had Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo and Kendrick Perkins...yet he nearly lost to the Bulls and ended up dropping the series to Orlando.

 

His skill set consists of the three-point shot (improved this season) and his elbow jumper. It seems that's where he scores most of his points with these days.

 

An "elitist" offensive skillset is contained by the likes of Kobe and Duncan. Wade comes close. Nash is almost there. Durant is almost there. Paul Pierce doesn't fit.

 

Pierce's ring on his finger doesn't make him the best (or second best) small forward in the NBA, just as Billups' 2004 ring doesn't make him better than Deron, CP3 or Nash.

 

Pierce got stopped last season.. so what? [expletive] happens. Like Kobe has not been stopped before (oh wait... the irony here being Pierce defended the [expletive] out of Kobe in the finals)?

Pierce is one of the most overlooked players in the league and has been for a while, RD you are one of the few people ive seen who will actually argue that he is not an A defender nor an elitist on offense.

Most professionals put this guy in the top 10 of Celtics players of all time... You have to be an elite player to be on this list no question.

Edited February 14, 2010 by bravenewworld

[MainEv3nt]

Pierce is not an "A" defender. He's nowhere near Artest, Battier, Afflalo, Smith, Howard, Oden, Hinrich, Wallace, Kobe, or Roy.

 

His leadership skills got him nowhere just last season, when Garnett was out. He had Ray Allen, Rajon Rondo and Kendrick Perkins...yet he nearly lost to the Bulls and ended up dropping the series to Orlando.

 

His skill set consists of the three-point shot (improved this season) and his elbow jumper. It seems that's where he scores most of his points with these days.

 

An "elitist" offensive skillset is contained by the likes of Kobe and Duncan. Wade comes close. Nash is almost there. Durant is almost there. Paul Pierce doesn't fit.

 

Pierce's ring on his finger doesn't make him the best (or second best) small forward in the NBA, just as Billups' 2004 ring doesn't make him better than Deron, CP3 or Nash.

 

dwight right

[Real Deal]

Pierce got stopped last season.. so what? [expletive] happens. Like Kobe has not been stopped before (oh wait... the irony here being Pierce defended the [expletive] out of Kobe in the finals)?

Pierce is one of the most overlooked players in the league and has been for a while, RD you are one of the few people ive seen who will actually argue that he is not an A defender nor an elitist on offense.

Most professionals put this guy in the top 10 of Celtics players of all time... You have to be an elite player to be on this list no question.

Pierce and Allen were on Bryant, together, and Garnett was lurking when he drove. You seriously can't say that Pierce defended Bryant by himself, can you?

 

And as far as being a top ten Celtic of all-time, just take the list and see how far it drops from the top five (where Paul Pierce is nowhere near)...

 

Larry Bird

Bill Russell

Bob Cousy

John Havlicek

Kevin McHale

Robert Parish

Dennis Johnson

Dave Cowens

Bill Sharman

Sam Jones

 

You can stick Pierce somewhere near the bottom of that list. That doesn't make him an "A" defender, and it doesn't make him the offensive player you claim he is. If he was both of those, he'd be right there with Larry Bird, and I hope you really don't think that's true.

[bravenewworld]

Pierce and Allen were on Bryant, together, and Garnett was lurking when he drove. You seriously can't say that Pierce defended Bryant by himself, can you?

 

And as far as being a top ten Celtic of all-time, just take the list and see how far it drops from the top five (where Paul Pierce is nowhere near)...

 

Larry Bird

Bill Russell

Bob Cousy

John Havlicek

Kevin McHale

Robert Parish

Dennis Johnson

Dave Cowens

Bill Sharman

Sam Jones

 

You can stick Pierce somewhere near the bottom of that list. That doesn't make him an "A" defender, and it doesn't make him the offensive player you claim he is. If he was both of those, he'd be right there with Larry Bird, and I hope you really don't think that's true.

 

No it does not automatically make him an A defender or great offensive player, but you are really the only person to suggest he is not. What puts him in that top 10 category (not me saying this btw, people who make millions to analyze games and players are the ones saying this) of Celtics is the fact that.... he really is a true badass.

Offensively Pierce can do anything that any of the greats could. He has a great mid range jumper, has shot a career of 37% from the 3 (Kobe at 34 btw) being 4th in the NBA, 45 from the field (same as KB) and 86 for FTs (81 for KB) with an average of 23ppg career (2 shy of KB). Now, a cross SF/SG that has made eight all- star appearances and win a three-point competition, multiple All-NBA teams, a finals MVP award, ect. ect. ect.is not someone who is lacking anything offensively at all (given position at least).

 

Defensively there is not much evidence to give simply because there are not many ways to accurately measure defensive production, however the best ways we currently have is by using Defensive Win Shares and Defensive Efficiency. Both of which he is rated higher then Mr. Bryant (with DWS almost 20 spots better).

 

Also if you have not figured it out, i am using Bryant as a comparison because it is clear you think he is everything that Pierce is not.

 

 

2008 NBA FINALS SCOUTING REPORT OF PAUL PIERCE:

.......Pierce has asked for and received the defensive assignment versus Bryant at key times during this series and he has done a very respectable job guarding the league's best player, just like he did a good job earlier in the playoffs defending against LeBron James, the league's second best player.....

 

Pierce and Allen were on Bryant, together, and Garnett was lurking when he drove. You seriously can't say that Pierce defended Bryant by himself, can you?

Not all the time, no. But Doc Rivers would have been labeled a defensive moron had he not sent double teams at Kobe. But as the scouting report said, PP did a very respectable job guarding Kobe, which is about as high of praise as you can get when defending that man.

Edited February 15, 2010 by bravenewworld

[Real Deal]

2009-2010: 47.8% (with healing Garnett, Perkins, Rondo)

2008-2009: 47.7% (with injured Garnett, Perkins, Rondo)

2007-2008: 44.6% (with Garnett, Perkins, Rondo)

2006-2007: 51.6% (no Garnett)

2005-2006: 50.5% (no Garnett)

2004-2005: 49.7% (no Garnett)

 

I know you see what I see. Those are allowed eFG% by Pierce, season-by-season. See how they decrease? Now do you know why Kobe had so much trouble against the Celtics in 2008? Do you really think it was all Pierce?

 

It's easy defending guys that can't drive to the rim because of defensive monsters waiting for them.

 

And I never said Pierce wasn't in the top ten...but he's at the bottom of that list. He sure the hell isn't up there with Bird, Russell, McHale, Cousy and Havlicek. All were better overall players. And I'm sure I could make an argument for Dave Cowens.

 

If you're so interested in Defensive Win Shares, check out the 2005-06 season for the Lakers. Smush Parker was at 3.0, right behind Bryant's 3.7. Really? Smush Parker was pathetic on defense.

 

How about this season, though? Bynum is third, Gasol fourth...and Artest fifth? Yet, that doesn't exactly match up with what the "people who make millions to analyze games and players" are saying. To them, Ron Artest is arguably a top five defender in the NBA. And every Lakers fan knows how pathetic Bynum has been on defense as well, to the point where the Lakers are considering benching him this second half.

 

Guess who is just one point from Paul Pierce in career defensive win shares? That's right...Dirk Nowitzki, someone who has been known for being an average defender all his career. I bet you can't guess who is just two points behind Kobe Bryant. It's Allen Iverson, who has been a matador all his career as well.

 

Career scoring average is also a bad way to look at it. If a two-point gap is too close to call between Bryant and Pierce, you wouldn't mind the two-point gap between Pierce and Michael Redd...and we know how one-dimensional Michael Redd is. But maybe it has more to do with roles on a team...like Pierce's with Boston, as he was their leading scorer for most of his career, not having to pass the ball to very many, just as Redd was for Milwaukee. Bryant, on the other hand, was benched for a couple of seasons, then running an offense until around 2001, then was given the role to run that offense AND score 25-30 a game.

 

You can say all you want about Pierce, but don't compare him to Bryant, in any aspect of the game. Pierce is a top ten Celtic, but Kobe is a top two Laker, top ten player of all-time (top five or better once his career is done). Pierce isn't even on that planet.

[Legacy]

He thinks Paul Pierce is better than LeBron James. Lost all credibility there.