Jammin Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 The Boston Celtics are discussing a deal with the Washington Wizards for forwards Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler, league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Friday. The proposed deal would send the expiring contracts of Ray Allen, Brian Scalabrine and J.R. Giddens to the Wizards. An actual trade is not yet imminent, but it represents the bold thinking of Danny Ainge ahead of the deadline. The teams are expected to continue discussing the deal on Friday and throughout All-Star weekend. http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/64638/20100212/boston_talking_deal_for_both_jamison_and_butler/ RondoButlerPeirceJamisonGarnett With their bench? Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Spidey Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 OH MY GOD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Bad deal for both teams... unless Butler becomes a 3 point shooter, Jamison learns to play defense, and Brian Scalabrine turns into a 20 and 10 monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren2ThaG Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Great for both teams, hope it goes down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Situation Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 wtf ^ how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Spidey Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 uhmmmm i'd take this in a heartbeat are you guys joking.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog17k Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Boston needs to make some sort of move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Boston needs to make some sort of move.I don't understand. Je ne comprends pas. The Celtics have everything they need for a successful year and a possible look at the NBA Finals. The only thing they are even missing, really, is a legit back up PG and a true lockdown perimeter defender, yet that isn't even what this particular deal is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Oh my god, I can't possibly think of a trade that could be worse than this for us. If we're going to trade for salary comfort, I want at least a mid to high draft pick and/or young talent to go along with it, not just an expiring wash up with a few extra expirings on the side. If this happens I may have to take a long break from watching Wizards basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Oh my god, I can't possibly think of a trade that could be worse than this for us. If we're going to trade for salary comfort, I want at least a mid to high draft pick and/or young talent to go along with it, not just an expiring wash up with a few extra expirings on the side. If this happens I may have to take a long break from watching Wizards basketball.I can imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren2ThaG Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 uhmmmm i'd take this in a heartbeat are you guys joking.. They don't know basketball dude so u can ignore them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) They don't know basketball dude so u can ignore them.What's there not to know? You put a ball in a basket :o On a serious note, you can't just look at the talent level of players, slap them together and call it a great team. The game is played between the lines. The players on the Celtics' roster compliment each other very well as is. Butler isn't going to space the floor the way Allen did, and Jamison isn't going to be nearly as good of a defensive duo with Garnett as Perkins, plus I have doubts on Garnett's and Jamison's co-existing ability. Also, how is there going to be any room to split playing time between Garnett, Jamison, Perkins, and Wallace? Edited February 12, 2010 by Poe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 What's there not to know? You put a ball in a basket :o On a serious note, you can't just look at the talent level of players, slap them together and call it a great team. The game is played between the lines. The players on the Celtics' roster compliment each other very well as is. Butler isn't going to space the floor the way Allen did, and Jamison isn't going to be nearly as good of a defensive duo with Garnett as Perkins, plus I have doubts on Garnett's and Jamison's co-existing ability. Also, how is there going to be any room to split playing time between Garnett, Jamison, Perkins, and Wallace?That's exactly what I was thinking. You have Garnett and Perkins getting starter minutes with Wallace as both the backup center and power forward. Where are the minutes for Jamison? If there are any, they are very limited. I'd be shocked if an all star caliber player like Jamison got over 25 minutes per game on the Celtics. This trade increases the talent for the Celtics on paper, but is a chemistry murderer for them. With there already apparently being some locker room arguments, I can't imagine the feuding that would occur between players who are unsatisfied with their playing time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 I don't think there are any feuds going on necessarily, just a lack of the same enthusiasm this team had originally when they were on their way to their first championship. That's all they meant when they said there are locker room problems. Other than that, age is a factor, though not completely a problem. They still have another shot at it this year. Trading away the core that brought them their first championship isn't going to move them any closer towards it. This summer will probably be the best time to start making deals, but not now. Players need time to build chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueDevil Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 i really cant see this happening, and like some other people said, i really think it would hurt both teams. Celtics talent level would be off the charts, but theres not enough time for everyone. I dont think this is actually going to go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtics3420 Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 (edited) Bad deal for both teams... unless Butler becomes a 3 point shooter, Jamison learns to play defense, and Brian Scalabrine turns into a 20 and 10 monster. Iunno, i think this helps us(The Celtics) more than it hurts. As of right now, Butler would be the obvious replacement for Ray with Jamison off the bench(a Jamison-KG front court would NOT be ideal). On paper it's beast, but you're right, the chemistry/play styles would be an issue. However, i trust that we can adjust accordingly by the time the playoffs roll around. As for Washington's side, i'm sure they'd want a pick or so along with the deal, but this is clearly a salary dump. I see no other reasons as to why they're even listening. Regardless, this is probably only the base, we'd def be adding a pick(s). This potentially extends that "window" for a championship right now IMO. IIRC, Caron is 30 and jamison is 34? Rondo-35 MinutesButler-35 MinutesPierce-30-33 MinutesKG-30 MinutesPerkins-30 Minutes Bench Jamison-25-30 MinutesSheed- 20-25 minutes(both AJ/Sheed giving KG/Pierce/Perk MUCH needed extra rest)Quise Daniels-15-20(Butler's Back-up and in at SF when Sheed/AJ are in the game.)Baby Davis(is this where that Augustine rumor comes in?(10-15 if it's augustine, otherwise i see House getting PG minutes and baby getting spot minutes due to foul troubles only)House-Spot minutes at SG/PG.(5-10 ) Those are the main players. I'm just giving rough estimates, but those should be the minutes. Doc sucks at managing minutes so i could see Jamison playing 40 MPG lol. Anyways, if it goes down, i'd be really happy. If it doesn't, i'd still be ok, but we do need a move, even if it isn't this one. Edited February 12, 2010 by Celtics3420 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChosenOne Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 I would love to se this go down it would make the Celtics great again and the Cavs would be forced to make a move to compete so that would be great to see happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtics3420 Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 That's exactly what I was thinking. You have Garnett and Perkins getting starter minutes with Wallace as both the backup center and power forward. Where are the minutes for Jamison? If there are any, they are very limited. I'd be shocked if an all star caliber player like Jamison got over 25 minutes per game on the Celtics. This trade increases the talent for the Celtics on paper, but is a chemistry murderer for them. With there already apparently being some locker room arguments, I can't imagine the feuding that would occur between players who are unsatisfied with their playing time. Jamison would almost assuredly be splitting time with playing SF and PF. The minutes would be adjusted in my post above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted February 12, 2010 Owner Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 How is this a bad trade for Boston? C - Perkins/SheedPF - Garnett/DavisSF - Jamison/ButlerSG - Pierce/T. AllenPG - Rondo/House/Daniels Boston trades a capable 20 PPG offensive player for two capable 20 PPG offensive players, and they still retain their defensive players in Rondo, Garnett, Perkins and Tony Allen (and Pierce, who is decent defensively). This makes Boston a very potent offensive team (and they are sitting 13th in the league right now), and may just slightly bump their defense down a bit (ranked 1st in the NBA at this point, possibly top five by the end of the season). The best offensive team in the NBA, top five defensively...you don't beat that, no matter who you are. STUPID trade, Washington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeZee Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Apparently Ric Bucher has already shot this rumor down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 The Celtics have already stated they don't want to take on Jamison and Butler's salaries. This would be huge, but financially, I can't see Ainge pulling the trigger. Stop worrying guys, Washington would never do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 Iunno, i think this helps us(The Celtics) more than it hurts. As of right now, Butler would be the obvious replacement for Ray with Jamison off the bench(a Jamison-KG front court would NOT be ideal). On paper it's beast, but you're right, the chemistry/play styles would be an issue. However, i trust that we can adjust accordingly by the time the playoffs roll around. Jamison has too high of an ego to be willing to come off the bench. It's either he starts and gets his 40mpg, or you'll be getting some real chemistry issues, or else you can just deal with a frontcourt of KG and Jamison. Other than minutes, I don't see how this works. Butler can't replace what Ray Allen brings. With Rondo running the point, and a big man with range limited to mid, and a center who can't shoot, you need a guy other than Peirce who can knock down those threes and space the floor. That's what Ray Allen does, and he's one of the greatest shooters of all time. In case you didn't notice, Caron Butler is only shooting 26% from the 3 point arc this year. Again, Jamison is not going to be able to co-exist with such a defensive-minded team, and the fact that his minutes will be eaten by the bench will bring his ego a little further to the front. The talent level increases, but the level of the players will decrease. Everything will be clogged in the middle on offense, and the defensive intensity will decrease by at least 20% as long as Jamison is on the floor. Really, it's simply best to keep the core that brought this Celtics team their championship the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 How is this a bad trade for Boston? C - Perkins/SheedPF - Garnett/DavisSF - Jamison/ButlerSG - Pierce/T. AllenPG - Rondo/House/Daniels Boston trades a capable 20 PPG offensive player for two capable 20 PPG offensive players, and they still retain their defensive players in Rondo, Garnett, Perkins and Tony Allen (and Pierce, who is decent defensively). This makes Boston a very potent offensive team (and they are sitting 13th in the league right now), and may just slightly bump their defense down a bit (ranked 1st in the NBA at this point, possibly top five by the end of the season). The best offensive team in the NBA, top five defensively...you don't beat that, no matter who you are. STUPID trade, Washington.How is this a good trade for Boston? Jamison is too slow to guard SFs like LeBron James, and Peirce is too slow to guard Dwyane Wade... or ANY guard in the league for that matter. Sure, this team could have a decent enough record to stay near the top, but man will they get killed come playoff time. Damn, you know, I'd LOVE the Heat to play this team, actually. Possible chemistry problems, too many scorers for too little shots, less perimeter defense, and no shooters to fit perfectly into Miami's no-layups-allowed defense. For the Heat's perspective, I welcome this trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poe Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 The Celtics have already stated they don't want to take on Jamison and Butler's salaries.Surprise, surprise... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted February 12, 2010 Report Share Posted February 12, 2010 How is this a good trade for Boston? Jamison is too slow to guard SFs like LeBron James, and Peirce is too slow to guard Dwyane Wade... or ANY guard in the league for that matter. Sure, this team could have a decent enough record to stay near the top, but man will they get killed come playoff time. Damn, you know, I'd LOVE the Heat to play this team, actually. Possible chemistry problems, too many scorers for too little shots, less perimeter defense, and no shooters to fit perfectly into Miami's no-layups-allowed defense. For the Heat's perspective, I welcome this trade.What chemistry issues are you referring to? Jamison and Butler causing locker rooms problems? Please, Jamison and Butler are one of the nicest players you will ever see, and take it from me who has been around these two guys for over 6 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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