Hedo Turkoglu: Should The Opposing Team Pay The Raptors For Playing Him?

[Built Ford Tough]

Does anybody else find it absolutely hilarious, yet infuriating at the same time, that Hedo Turkoglu's play has steadily decaresed as the season has progressed? After the absolutely comical performance that he put on today, I went on Basketball Reference and checked out his monthly stats. They are:

 

November: 14 ppg , 4.6 rpg , 4 apg , 2.2 topg pn 45.2 FG% and 42.4 3PT%

December: 13.1 ppg , 4.4 rpg , 5.3 apg , 1.5 topg on 40 FG% and 39 3PT%

January: 9.8 ppg , 4.6 rpg , 4 apg , 1.5 topg on 33.6 FG% and 33.3 3PT%

Feburary: 8 ppg , 2 rpg , 3 apg , 3 topg on 31.5 FG% and 25 3PT%

 

In 47 games this season Turkoglu has scored 20 points or above 4 times and 15 points or above 13 times. He has scored in single digits 15 times and has scored 5 points or less 5 times (2 of which he was held pointless and he has 2 other games where he scored 6 points only).

 

Now I realize that he has only played in two games in Feburary, but there has been no indication that this trend will stop with the way that Turkoglu has played.

 

Are we as Raptor fans still supposed to buy the whole "give Turkoglu time" bull[expletive] that we are still hearing from time to time? I mean maybe if Tukoglu actually showed something but even his best game of the season was hardly anything special (26/11/2).

 

I seriously think that the Raptors opponents should chip in and pay part of Turkoglu's salary. I mean they are benefiting more from the Raptors playing Turkoglu than the Raptors are, so it would only be fair, right?

 

/rant.

[Real Deal]

LOL. Give him time!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Kidding, of course. Hedo needs Orlando. Toronto doesn't need him. Down south, he was facilitating their offense. He doesn't do that here, and it makes him useless.

 

Plus, his defense is even worse in Toronto...which is probably connected to his poor play, and that's connected to his lack of touches.

 

Does he deserve touches in Toronto? Nope. The Raptors should've explored trade opportunities for him.

[Built Ford Tough]

The Raptors should've explored trade opportunities for him.

 

I don't even think somebody would be willing to take Hedo Turkoglu on for free.

 

The only realistic scenario would be something like Hedo Turkoglu for Elton Brand or something and even Philly wouldn't do that because at least Brand isn't a complete waste of space like Turkoglu is.

 

I know I've said it before, but seriously, somebody needs to plant a gun in Turkoglu's locker and make up some BS story about how he tried to kill Antoine Wright for trying to take Turkoglu's throne as biggest waste of space on the Raptors.

 

That is believeable, right?

Edited February 18, 2010 by Built Ford Tough

[Real Deal]

I don't even think somebody would be willing to take Hedo Turkoglu on for free.

 

The only realistic scenario would be something like Hedo Turkoglu for Elton Brand or something and even Philly wouldn't do that because at least Brand isn't a complete waste of space like Turkoglu is.

 

I know I've said it before, but seriously, somebody needs to plant a gun in Turkoglu's locker and make up some BS story about how he tried to kill Antoine Wright for trying to take Turkoglu's throne as biggest waste of space on the Raptors.

 

That is believeable, right?

Ball.

[MainEv3nt]

hedon't turkoglu sucks.

 

im glad we never went after him.

[Built Ford Tough]

Ball.

 

Mask.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Built Ford Tough

[BasX]

It's like someone said, hey, you are gonna make this trade to get two young and nice players in Amir and Weems and they are going to become good players for you. Because of that, you need to take Hedo.

 

 

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

[Poe]

I find it interesting how the Raptors + Hedo this year = playoff team. Whereas, the Raps didn't even come close to the playoffs last year. There may be some intangibles Hedo brings that helps his team win games.

[Real Deal]

I find it interesting how the Raptors + Hedo this year = playoff team. Whereas, the Raps didn't even come close to the playoffs last year. There may be some intangibles Hedo brings that helps his team win games.

It has a lot to do with benching Calderon. They are 20-11 with him on the bench, or just not playing at all...and 9-13 with him starting.

[BasX]

Also Amir, Sonny and DeMar has turned us away from being a pure 3 point shooting team. BC made some good moves apart from Hedo.

[Poe]

So the addition of Amir, Sonny, Demar, and Jack turned the Raptors from a 14th seeded team into a 5th seeded team??

Edited February 18, 2010 by Poe

[Real Deal]

So the addition of Amir, Sonny, Demar, and Jack turned the Raptors from a 14th seeded team into a 5th seeded team??

I don't see why that's so hard to believe in the Eastern Conference.

 

Again, with Calderon starting, they were 9-13. That's on pace to win 33 games...the same exact record as they had last season.

 

Lineup adjustments were huge. Jack has done wonders for the Raptors, as well as the other players...but placing Calderon on the bench, IMO, was the best thing for Toronto.

 

Plus, if you've seen Hedo's terrible play in the last two months or so (decreasing play as well), you'd understand.

 

EDIT: Stats were posted by Sean...completely forgot.

[BasX]

So the addition of Amir, Sonny, Demar, and Jack turned the Raptors from a 14th seeded team into a 5th seeded team??

I think you took what I posted the wrong way. You forget the improvement Andrea has made and Bosh is playing like an All-NBAer. Also, the loss of guys like Kapono combined with a decent back-up PG, helps us improve. There are small factors that help.

[Poe]

I think you took what I posted the wrong way. You forget the improvement Andrea has made and Bosh is playing like an All-NBAer. Also, the loss of guys like Kapono combined with a decent back-up PG, helps us improve. There are small factors that help.

I understand that. I suppose all the small adjustments added up to give Toronto a winning record instead of a losing one.

 

Still, is there anything Hedo could be doing beyond stats to add to those small things? Does he make momentum plays, does he help keep the defense honest with his perimeter game, does he space the floor with his shooting, does he bring continuity to the offense, does he take and make the big shot or the big defensive stop, and does he step up when everyone else is in a slump to keep the Raptors in the game? Also, does he bring a leadership role to the team that helps pick up everyone's play, or in other words, make everyone else better beyond the assist stat?

 

I know his own stats are down, and that obviously needs to be changed considering his money and role on the team. Whatever the solution is, Toronto needs to find it. But aside from that, beyond having two new starting guards and a few new bench players, is there anything Hedo could be doing that has helped the Raptors change from being a nonplayoff team, to a team that can potentially challenge Boston and Atlanta?

[Check my Stats]

^^Hedo isn't even a good jump shooter.

 

The worst part is, to me at least, is that Hedo has given no indication that he cares. Dude just goes out, collects his paycheck, and heads back home. Doesn't play with any sort of fire, and cannot play off the ball at all, just stands around when it isn't in his hands. He is just complacent as hell out there, and as a fan it is so frustrating.

 

Hedo's play is beyond streaky, at this point we are lucky to even get a good game from him once a week. A good game is 15-5-5 these days for Hedo. His numbers in January are not only pathetic, but inexcusable. He is a professional NBA player, and those numbers are Demar Derozan looking, absolutely pathetic.

 

It sucks because honestly I was one of the people saying, 'he needs more touches', and get him involved, but up to now he has done nothing to deserve more touches, he turns it over as often as he makes a good play with it. Launches contested off balance jumpers, he shoots at like 40%, there are almost no good qualities about this Hedo Turkoglu, he is literally 1/2 the player I thought we were getting when we signed him.

 

With Bosh out, Hedo is going to need to step the [expletive] up for us, and be on of our best players.

Edited February 18, 2010 by travesy3

[Built Ford Tough]

Does he make momentum plays

 

For the other team more than the Raptors. I know it may seem like I am overreacting or overexagerating, but I am seriously not. Turkoglu throws up bad jumpers at inopportune times (which he usually misses) that can either halt the Raptors momentum or give the other team a lift. He also doesn't average very many turnovers per game (one thing that has actually been nice about him) but down the stretch of games he has made some terrible decisions with the rock which have led to either a poor shot or a turnover, and it allows the opposing team to get back into the game.

 

Take last nights game against Memphis for an example. The Raptors were cruising with a lineup of Calderon/Weems/Wright/Bosh/Bargnani. With about 3 minutes left in the game Antoine Wright was split open by a Rudy Gay elbow and was forced to come out of the game. Turkoglu came into the game and dominated the ball on offense while playing matador defense. The Raptors offense went stagnant and their defense was worse wtih Turkoglu on the floor. To be honest, I think that if Wright never had to leave the game late in the 4th the Raptors would've held onto the win. Turkoglu coming into the game had a negative impact for the Raptors.

 

does he help keep the defense honest with his perimeter game, does he space the floor with his shooting

 

Yes he does those things, no agrument here. However, he hasn't been hitting anything lately which takes away some of the effectiveness of the spacing on the floor because teams aren't as worried about rotating over to him with how poorly he has been shooting.

 

For the most part though, he does these things becuase of his reputation.

 

does he bring continuity to the offense

 

Not when he is on the floor with Calderon because it seems like Hedo and Jose try to one up each other in terms of who can be more ball dominant. The offense is worse when Hedo and Calderon are on the floor together and more often than not, Calderon is the point guard who closes out games (unless Jack is playing really well).

 

does he take and make the big shot or the big defensive stop

 

He has hit maybe one big shot the entire season (that OT game against Washington). I honestly don't even recall him hitting any other real big shots late in a game, or hitting a huge shot to cause a momentum swing. He loves to take the big shot, that is for damn sure, but he doesn't make the big shot very often.

 

Hedo Turkoglu doesn't play defense and he sure as hell doesn't come up with any key defensive stops.

 

 

and does he step up when everyone else is in a slump to keep the Raptors in the game?

 

Chris Bosh and Andrea Bargnani (sometimes) are the only Raptors that step up and deliever a key basket when the Raptors are in a slump. Usually it is Bosh getting inside or to the free throw line because when the Raptors get into slumps it is because they start jacking up jumpers non stop. Turkoglu doesn't do anything to rectify that.

 

Also, does he bring a leadership role to the team that helps pick up everyone's play, or in other words, make everyone else better beyond the assist stat?

 

I can't really comment on this because nobody really knows what goes on in the locker room, during hudles/timeouts and what not, but from everything that I have heard, read, and seen on the court, Chris Bosh, Jarrett Jack and Antoine Wright seem to be the ones that bring the leadership to this team. After that Atlanta fiasco when they gave up 146 points or whatever it was, it was Jack and Wright that tied into the team and Chris Bosh is the most vocal player on the court from what I have seen.

 

But aside from that, beyond having two new starting guards and a few new bench players, is there anything Hedo could be doing that has helped the Raptors change from being a nonplayoff team, to a team that can potentially challenge Boston and Atlanta?

 

The thing is that the Raptors don't just have two new starting guards and a few bench players. This team is entirely different from last season. The only players on this team that were on the team opening day last season are Chris Bosh, Andrea Bargnani and Jose Calderon.

 

Last season the Raptors had absolutely no depth on the roster. When Calderon got hurt the Raptors were playing Will Solomon and Roko Ukic extended minutes at point guard. Both Solomon and Ukic are out of the NBA less than a year later. That is pretty telling.

 

They had literally no big men outside of Bosh and Bargnani (and O'Neal when he was here). Pops Mensah-Bonsu and Kris Humphries were the two best bigs off of the bench for Toronto.

 

Jason Kapono played 23 minutes a game and he can't even crack the rotation on a 20 win Philly team that is pathetic at shooting the 3 ball. Joey Graham got 20 minutes a game for Toronto and Joey Graham is a borderline NBA player. Outside of Anthony Parker and Shawn Marion (for 27 games) the Raptors had absolutely nobody on the wings.

 

The Raptors had absolutely no depth last season at all. They had very arguably the worst bench in the entire NBA to go along with the worst perimeter rotation in the entire NBA. Combine that with the fact that Calderon missed 14 games, O'Neal missed 14 games or so when he was with the team and Bosh missed 5 games and, well, yeah, the Raptors were completely [expletive]ed.

 

This season the Raptors have replaced Kris Humphries with Amir Johnson, Jake Voskhul with Rasho Nesterovic, Joey Graham with Sonny Weems, Jason Kapono with Antoine Wright, Will Solomon (or Roko Ukic) with Jarrett Jack and Shawn Marion with Hedo Turkoglu. Which of these scenarios doesn't have an obvious upgrade? That would be Turkoglu.

 

Lets also not forget that the Raptors added Marco Belinelli and DeMar DeRozan to the mix as well. While neither are anything special right now, they are still better options than the Raptors had last season.

 

Oh yeah, Chris Bosh is playing the best basketball of his life this season and has probably been the best power forward in the NBA so far. Andrea Bargnani has went from a 15/5 on 45% shooting player to a 17/6 on 47% player while also improving his defense as well.

 

To put it simply, this Raptors team is completely different than the one we saw last season. They are deeper and unarguably more talented. You can't compare this team with last years team because it is a completely different roster.

[Poe]

Great answer. +1

 

 

So from what I'm understanding about Hedo, if there are any intangibles that he brings, the negatives clearly outweigh any positives, seen or unseen. So what should be done about him? Keep attempting to successfully incorporate him into the offense? I doubt bringing him off the bench will do any good.

 

I guess the best option would be to try and make the most of him this season, see if he can possibly bring his averages up to where they need to be, and then deal him this summer if unsuccessful. Hopefully there will at least be one team willing to take on his contract.

[Built Ford Tough]

Great answer. +1

 

 

So from what I'm understanding about Hedo, if there are any intangibles that he brings, the negatives clearly outweigh any positives, seen or unseen. So what should be done about him? Keep attempting to successfully incorporate him into the offense? I doubt bringing him off the bench will do any good.

 

I guess the best option would be to try and make the most of him this season, see if he can possibly bring his averages up to where they need to be, and then deal him this summer if unsuccessful. Hopefully there will at least be one team willing to take on his contract.

 

Bringing him off of the bench wouldn't be any good because then he would be on the floor more with Calderon (who is much more effective off of the bench) than Jack, and from what I have seen so far this season Turkoglu and Calderon can't really co-exist on the floor together. They are both way too ball dominant. I'd rather just keep him in the starting lineup along with Jack because of that reason and also because the Raptors 2nd unit has actually played really well as of late. Calderon and Amir Johnson have developed some great chemistry together and Weems has played pretty well with Calderon as well.

 

I think that bringing Turk off of the bench would do more harm than good because he would disrupt the chemistry and because I am 99% sure Turkoglu would complain about it to no end. He has complained about his touches numerous times this season so I would imagine that his ego wouldn't be too pleased with coming off of the bench.

 

But yeah, you are right. The Raptors only real option is to simply hope that Turkoglu picks it up down the stretch and has a great playoffs. Maybe that would fool somebody into thinking that he would be worth making a move for. I doubt it, but I can hope.

[Poe]

I wasn't actually suggesting for him to come off the bench, putting the word "doubt" in there, but yea.. keep him, feed him, and just hope he can put his [expletive] together for the remainder of the season. Management can figure out what they can make out of him this offseason.

[Built Ford Tough]

I wasn't actually suggesting for him to come off the bench, putting the word "doubt" in there, but yea.. keep him, feed him, and just hope he can put his [expletive] together for the remainder of the season. Management can figure out what they can make out of him this offseason.

 

I know you weren't. I was just simply stating my thoughts on bringing him off of the bench because it really isn't a ridiculous opinion and somebody who isn't familiar with Turkoglu could've thought it was a good idea.

[Built Ford Tough]

I was reading RealGM and came across a thread that said that Hedo Turkoglu's mom had to have emergancy heart surgery according to the New Jersey Nets announcers (talked about it during the 3rd quarter I guess). This clearly is a reason why Turkoglu looked like he didn't even want to be on the court against the Grizzlies on Wedsnday and is definitely a legitimate excuse for why he played so poorly against them as well.

[Check my Stats]

Maybe he read this thread because he was at least noticeable the past 2 games lol.

[Built Ford Tough]

Just when I thought that Turkoglu couldn't possibly get any worse he has managed to sink even lower during March. Check out these jaw-dropping stats from Turkoglu:

 

7 ppg / 5.5 rpg / 3 apg / 30.8 FG% // 30.8 3PT%.

 

I don't even know what to say.